As promised here are the answers to the Christmas Quiz. Comments are based on a limited number of responses sent in. Please mark your own work and tell us how you got on. The limited consensus available suggests the quiz was much harder this year. Answers are highlighted in bold.
If you haven’t tried the quiz and fancy doing so before looking at the answers you can find it here.
Some people chose to send in answers. Apart from being helpful in gauging how people got on it mad the question setter appreciate issues of unanticipated plausibly correct answers and where to set the threshold of exactness when awarding the point. As this gets taken into account when considering a marking strategy there is some small advantage in sending in your entry.
Question 1
We asked you to identify two similar mistakes in the Elizabeth line diagram shown and explain why technically they might not be regarded as errors.
This was meant to be an easy obvious question but it turned out not to be so with some plausible convoluted answers. One wrong answer concerned a failure to show interchanges with Heathrow Express at Heathrow and another argued that the symbols for disabled access at Ealing Broadway and Paddington were too simplistic and therefore wrong whilst admitting they were correct in the context of the Elizabeth line.
The intended answer was subsequently more-or-less given to you in this comment.
The correct answer to the first part, or at least the one intended, is that Ealing Broadway and Hayes & Harlington are shown as interchanges with other National Rail services by means of the red ‘double arrow’ symbol. Since May 2023 this has not been the case. 2 Marks.
We are sure this is just an oversight by TfL but you could argue that since the stations are served by three GWR services in each direction in each 24-hour period then, technically the symbols should be there. These GWR trains run in the middle of the night and the Elizabeth line does not run during these hours so there is no meaningful interchange and the symbol is unhelpful. It would be far more sensible to show these GWR trains in the Elizabeth line timetable whilst making it clear that these were GWR services terminating or starting from Paddington main line station and not Elizabeth line trains. 1 mark.
You could argue that the positioning services to and from Paddington to service the Greenford – West Ealing also provide some kind of interchange but this is a pretty useless interchange and these trains generally run empty or nearly empty anyway. Furthermore, they don’t serve Hayes & Harlington.
Question 2
The MP for Slough was upset by the ”dissatisfactory” service to and from London in the peak direction due to the removal of all non-stop GWR peak-period trains in the peak direction between Slough and Paddington. 2tph used to run to Paddington calling at various stations on the relief (slow) lines and 2tph that provided the fast service to and from Oxford used to call at Slough but this was removed in the 2023 timetable. 1 mark.
The essence of the answer needed for the point is that it was the loss of GWR services that was the issue and nothing to do with the service provided by the Elizabeth line.
Off-peak and against the peak flow in the peak period there is still a 2tph non-stop between Slough and Paddington but now it is provided by the GWR semi-fast trains and uses the relief lines.
This press report reports the MP’s dissatisfaction.
Curiously, the railway press (including ourselves) appear to have failed to notice this at the time and there seemed to be few complaints from Slough commuters who appear to be more than satisfied with an additional peak-hours limited stop Elizabeth line trains that run all the way to and from Central London as a replacement.
In an article in Modern Railways in August 2023 it was reported that GWR stated that they couldn’t path the semi-fast trains (Didcot – London Paddington) to call at Slough in the peak hours in the peak direction. Whilst not doubting this is true, one suspect GWR is quite happy not to have short distance (by their standards) crowding onto longer distance trains. For one thing it makes their semi-fast trains (all stations to Reading then Twyford, Maidenhead and London Paddington) more attractive to longer distance travellers who would pay considerably more.
Question 3
The exact missing words were Signalling Software Upgrades. Anything that makes it clear we are talking about a software upgrade to the signalling system is acceptable. A simple test would be if either part of the answer to this question mentions the word ‘software’ then the gist of the question has been answered. We were looking for something that was, as stated in the question, “a sign of the times”. Signalling upgrades are almost as old as railways. Closing the railway for software upgrades is a relatively new phenomenon which will become more common. 1 mark.
On 11th November 2023 the Circle and Hammersmith & City lines were closed entirely and the District and Metropolitan lines had partial but substantial closures. The Jubilee line was also closed. Note we asked for either the date or the lines involved. 1 mark.
The specific reason we were looking for to explain why this update was needed was to update the signalling system on both the Sub-Surface Railway and the Jubilee line so that Jubilee line trains could reach Neasden depot by crossing the southbound Metropolitan line in automatic train mode in readiness for the next phase of implementing automatic train operation on the Metropolitan line.
Alternatively, and equally validly, you could argue (as some did) that the update was needed to test the interface between the Hammersmith control centre (Sub-Surface lines) and Neasden control centre (Jubilee line).
However, if you made it clear that it was necessary to update the signalling software then that is good enough for the point as it is specific – just not the answer we were really looking for. 1 mark.
Question 4
TfL is intending to proceed with the West London Orbital Railway with a proposed opening of 2030. This will initially be run using diesel trains according to current plans so will add to diesel emissions to the ULEZ area. 1 mark.
Note that the question stated “for which some passive provision has already been made”. The Silvertown tunnel has got a little further than that. Passive provision has already been made for the West London Orbital Railway at Brent Cross West station which was opened in December 2023.
Question 5
D) 750,000 responses to ticket office closure proposals. 1 mark.
Question 6
Not surprisingly Heathrow Express had a decline in usage in 2023 in contrast to all other TOCs (except Lumo). The figure was around 6% or 8% depending on source. Expect the decline to continue in future years as international travellers become more aware of the Elizabeth line services. 1 mark.
Question 7
This question concerned the westernmost exit possible on the DLR on London Underground strike days. We would not have been surprised if no-one got this correct although a look at the very careful wording of the question may have given a substantial clue.
The generally supplied answer was incorrectly given as Tower Gateway – unless you have evidence this was the case on some of the strike days. The DLR ran a full service which would appear to be incompatible with all trains terminating at Tower Gateway which only has a single terminating track sandwiched between two platforms – to allow passengers alighting and passengers boarding to be segregated.
In fact, trains terminated at Bank as normal even though Bank station was closed at street level. However, in order to enable passengers to enter and exit the DLR platforms to and from street level, there were sufficient staff on duty to enable passengers to use the Monument station entrance and exit. One person got this correct. 1 mark.
Question 8
Euston HS2 platforms started off as 11 planned then 10 then 6. If Euston rebuilding does not take place then there will be no HS2 platforms at all. 1 mark.
Question 9
If Sherlock Holmes in 2023 found something missing in Baker Street and located it near a museum it could only be the TfL lost property office which moved from Baker Street to a temporary location in Pelham Street by South Kensington station (the station for the Science Museum, National History Museum and the Victoria & Albert Museum). 1 mark.
The Lost Property office has now moved to its new permanent residence next to West Ham bus garage. 1 mark.
Question 10
The locations where the pictures were taken are:
a) Finsbury Park station Victoria line platforms. 1 mark.
b) Finsbury Park station Piccadilly line platforms. 1 mark.
c) Acton Depot (TfL museum depot). 1 mark.
The model at Acton Depot is supposed to depict a scene at Earl’s Court station. 1 mark.
The theme in common with all four pictures is that they depict a myth or at least something that is highly unlikely to be true. 1 mark.
When the Victoria line was built each station had a mosaic depicting something about the station to help passengers on the train more readily identify the station and also to provide a bit of artwork. For Finsbury Park a pair of crossed duelling pistols was chosen to symbolise the duels that supposedly took place in Finsbury Park.
The trouble with this is there is absolutely no evidence than a duel ever took place in Finsbury Park and it seems unlikely that the gentlemen of London would travel out to Finsbury Park for a duel when there are more convenient locations available nearby. And the local population was probably not the sort who would settle questions of honour by means of a duel.
It is thought that Finsbury Park was confused with Finsbury Fields (now Finsbury Square) in the City of London which seems a far more plausible location for duelling to take place.
In a similar manner the mosaic of balloons at Finsbury Park Piccadilly line platforms are allegedly supposed to depict hot-air balloons taking off from Finsbury Park. But again, it seems strange to chose this then out-of-the-way location a few miles from central London. Furthermore, it is well documented that the first hot air balloon flight in Britain took off from Finsbury Fields. There seems no reason for later flights to use Finsbury Park.
According to this Londonist article Why Are There Hot Air Balloon Mosaics At Finsbury Park Tube? the artist merely wished to give a feeling of elevation in a very deep tunnel. It is funny that of all the locations available to give this feeling, Finsbury Park station was chosen. Ironically, it is almost as if Finsbury Park was chosen for the balloon mosaics to make amends for getting the duelling thing wrong.
Many history books on London’s Underground have, in the past, reported as fact that the first baby born on the tube was given the names of Thelma Ursula Beatrice Eleanor. In fact, it is well documented that this is not the case and the name was only a humorous suggestion.
Finally there is a myth that a one-legged man called Bumper Harris rode up and down an escalator all day on the first escalator installed in Britain at Earl’s Court station to show how safe it was. Not surprisingly some people suggested this would not have the desired effect and in fact achieve the opposite effect.
The first trivial problem with the Bumper Harris story is that the escalator could only run in one direction. More suspiciously, despite the availability of cameras at the time and many pictures taken of the Underground there isn’t a single picture of Bumper Harris on the escalator. Surely this would have been a newsworthy item? There is a picture of someone who it is claimed is Bumper Harris but his legs aren’t in the picture! There is also a lot of hearsay evidence of people claiming to have known Bumper Harris but, again, this is not backed up by evidence.
Question 11
Question withdrawn due to the quizmaster having a mental block and referring to trams when he meant trolleybuses. Apologies for those who wasted time on this. This would explain why I don’t think anyone got the answer.
In 2023 the bus route 607 in North London was rebranded SL8 as part of the SuperLoop Network. The number 607 was given to the route because it replicated the limited stop service of the former tram number 607. 1 mark.
It could be argued that route 207 was the actual replacement of the tram service and the limited stop route 607 was named after route 207. Either way, it owed its number to the 607 tram.The reason route 607 was not a true relic is because it was only inaugurated in 1990. You don’t need to get the year correct – just the fact it was not a direct replacement for the tram route. Other similar reasons concerning a lack of continuity would also be acceptable as an answer. 1 mark.
Alternatively one could argue that semantically relics and remnants only apply to physical objects.
Question 12
This picture was taken at Bank Junction which is now Buses and bicycles only Monday – Friday 7 a.m. – 7 p.m. 1 mark.
Threadneedle Street for part of its length at the Bank end is now bicycles only. Identifying the road was made more difficult by being a photo taken at night but only Threadneedle Street is consistent with the exact layout depicted. 1 mark.
Question 13
Stratford International has been joined (since the pandemic) by Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International in not having any international trains. 1 mark.
Question 14
Yes. Trains do stop at City Thameslink on Sundays. 1 mark.
Northbound trains stop briefly in the platform to change traction power source from 750V d.c. third rail to 25kV a.c. overhead. The passenger doors of the train do not open. 1 mark.
Changing power source has to take place at City Thameslink so that, in the event of a problem, the train can either be diverted out the way into Smithfield sidings which it can do using 750V d.c. (ideal solution) or be reversed back to Blackfriars.
Question 15
City Airport DLR station is staffed during the day because it has a DLR-run information centre. It is not known if the staff present have any operational role (e.g. assist with station evacuation should that be necessary). 1 mark.
Question 16
The screenshot of an underground train (note lowercase ‘u’) is clearly of the Waterloo & City line in its British Rail days as indicated by the distinctive profile of the cab end. The screenshot is from the 1965 film ‘The Liquidator’ – a classic 1960s spy thriller sprinkled with black comedy that wasn’t a great success. One answer was not only correct but they also named the film it was from. No bonus point for naming the film but kudos deserved. 1 mark.
The screenshot was taken from around 30 seconds from the start in the trailer on YouTube.
Question 17
61016 is the non-urgent text number for British Transport Police. If said as 6-101-6 then the probable origin should be clear. 101 is the non-urgent (i.e. not 999) phone number for the police. 1 mark.
The answer given by the Sir Herbert Walker team (who seem to be one of only two entrants who have provided the fully correct answer) cannot be bettered.
101 is the non emergency number so they added a 6 (commonly used for texting) at each end.
Question 18
Question withdrawn due to there being sufficient doubt as to whether this actually is a ULEZ camera and not just an ANPR camera set up to identify speeding motorists. We confess to not being 100% sure when setting the question but we expected to be 100% sure once we had read a few answers. It seems the that everyone except one person who answered thought it was a ULEZ camera and the dissenter, on questioning, was not sure what it was.
For details see various comments in the comment section made by Mark.
We believe this to be a LEZ/ULEZ camera with suitable protection against those determined to destroy them. It certainly looks like a ULEZ camera although the detail cannot be seen in the photo. 1 mark.
Question 19
This is clearly going to be controversial.
It doesn’t matter how carefully one tries to word the question there is always the possibility of ambiguity. The instructions stated “The intention is that they are genuinely useful intended interchanges not ‘coincidental’ ones. Both services must be in the same direction unless otherwise stated“. It would have been better if the latter sentence was worded “Both services must be travelling in the same direction unless otherwise stated “. This ambiguity led to an additional possible answer to question 19 C).
The question clearly stated cross-platform interchange. Changing trains on the same platform doesn’t count.
A) The only known example we can think of that meets the conditions is Barking (platforms 2/4 and 5/6 to interchange between the Underground and c2c services via Upminster.
B) This is the classic case of Highbury and Islington (Victoria line and Great Northern Electrics on the Moorgate branch.
C) The intended answer was Elmers End (tram to British Rail). Overlooked was the obvious answer of New Cross. Crystal Palace was not intended to be a valid answer as it was planned for cross-platform interchange in both directions. However, it is only actually timetabled to be available in one direction except for a couple late night trains so we will have to allow that. If you interpreted the instructions differently (as described above) then you could argue that there is a genuinely useful cross platform interchange at Richmond between the London Overground (platform 3) and the SWR service to Waterloo at platform 2.
D) West Ealing when leaving a train from Greenford and continuing to London on the Elizabeth line.
E) Wimbledon. Trams arrive at platform 10 (A + B) from which there is cross platform connection to Thameslink services which serve platform 9 in both directions.
F) Greenford (the other end of the West Ealing – Greenford shuttle) in a central bay platform for onward travel on the Central line in either direction.
1 mark for a correct answer for each section giving a total of 6 marks.
Question 20
A difficult question. The route going along the Thames for a short length suggests it has to be an aircraft of some type. The sharp turn would suggest it is not an aeroplane and the specific route suggests controlled flight. It is, in fact, the route of an early R101 airship flight which was made for publicity purposes. 1 mark.
The diagram is taken from the book ‘Fatal Flight – The true story of Britain’s Last Great Airship’ which is an excellent read for those interested in the subject.
Some people did get this answer correct and one person even identified it as the route of R101.
Question 21
We thought this would be almost impossible but at least two of you got it. It is the Step Short memorial in Folkestone. The planning document submitted with Folkestone and Hythe district council (ref Y12/0742/SH) refers to the font as ‘London Underground Font’. 1 mark.
Let Us Know
You may like to tell us how you got on. Let us know in the comments. If you got most of the answers correct then how many did you get wrong and which ones were those?
For question 13, would not also Birmingham International be a valid answer. It serves an international airport, however the airport name was changed in 2010 from Birmingham International Airport to Birmingham Airport (sources: https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/birmingham-international-airport-announces-name-3928035 and https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/birmingham-airport-changes-name-132246)
Admittedly I have no skin in the game, and I presume no-one gave it as an answer as it is not London based, but it my mind immediately jumped there when I saw the question.
Q11 As far I am aware, there was never a tram route 607. The tram route along the Uxbridge Road was No 7. This inspired the choice of 607 for the trolleybus route which replaced it and, in due course, the current 207 bus, and its express version the 607.
Someone with no sense of history/tradition renumbered the 607 as the SL8 (and the X26, which also has a long history, as the SL7)
Rob T-A
True. And no-one else seems to have spotted this or commented on it whilst most people grasped that Ebbsfleet and Ashford International are no longer international. So slightly bad question but I’ll leave it in as you only had to give one valid reason. As you say it is probably down to the London centric readership.
timbeau,
Oh dear. I very senior moment. I appear to be getting more of these nowadays. I nearly had another one in another question when, I kept referring to to South Kensington instead of Earl’s Court. Fortunately I spotted that one in time.
What I meant to do is refer to trolleybus but I unfortunately referred to tram. A pity because I thought it was a good topical question.
Apologies to all and question 11 has been withdrawn.
Q9 – Ah, Mr Holmes, I’d presumed it was an event in 2023 whilst the Lost Property Office moved a few years ago. All makes sense now.
Q20 – as a balloonist myself, albeit a modern day one, disappointed not to have thought of this.
Q21 – am immense achievement by those who got it.
Well done all!
Thank you for another excellent quiz. I got 8 or 9 points which I would say is broadly similar to previous years. And, as ever, the only thing more entertaining than the quiz itself is the level of pedantry in the comments.
Well, more difficult than previous years!
We got 26/32, which we are very pleased with!
Got Q1 wrong, though the disability access symbol point is true(!), Q4, should have thought of West London Orbital (but bet it never happens, the business case will be awful), Q7, should have known it wasn’t going to be Tower Gateway (otherwise, why ask it!), Q10, just didn’t think they were all myths ( I was brought up to believe that ‘one Bumper Harris’, as he’s always referred to, was very real), Q11, that’s why I couldn’t get it! As the person responsible for introducing the 607, if you’d said trolleybuses I would have been there!, Q12, missed Threadneedle Street being closed except to cyclists; when I was last driving a bus in the City, I was about to turn left into Queen Vic Street when I realised it was permanently closed, Q19, brilliant set of questions even if the definitions weren’t always precise, Q20, should have guessed it was airbourne, Q21, we’d have got it if the paving manufacturer (Marshall’s) had anyone there who remembered where it was, as it was in their catalogue some time ago, as was a picture of the graceful monument above. Google couldn’t find either!
Really good questions. Looking forward to 2024!
The Sir Herbert Walker team.
Concord,
I didn’t realise that the TfL lost property office moved such a long time ago. The question was therefore a bit misleading and I should have worded it differently although it wasn’t sufficiently ‘wrong’ to render it null. Besides a lot of people did get the correct answers.
I think this really shows that in future we need to try the questions out on one or two selected people with good knowledge to see if we can pick up any obvious oversights.
The Herbert Walker Team,
Similar the response to Concord’s comment, I think question 19 shows just how difficult it is to unambiguously pose a question and this suggests we need to try out the quiz on a couple of people in advance to help eliminate any ambiguities. I had actually spent ages thinking about how to word the question but still ambiguities slipped in as well as overlooked answers – some of which I really should have instantly thought of.
I’ll try to think of a similar but sufficiently different original question for next year – and be very careful with the wording.
regarding Question 13, there are several further stations that are relevant:
“Prestwick International Airport railway station” serves “Glasgow Prestwick Airport”
“Harwich International railway station” serves “Harwich International Port”
“Rhoose Cardiff International Airport railway station” serves “Cardiff Airport” (the operating company has the word “international” in it but the airport name does not).
Perhaps, better wording would have been “Stratford International Railway Station has in the past been mocked for being the only UK railway station with ‘international’ in its title that neither serves any station outside the UK nor connects to international travel by any other means”
Thanks for running this again! By my count we got 30 out of 36.
I’m not convinced by number 18, and even expected you to say “you might think it’s a reinforced ULEZ camera but of course it’s not!” The caged camera doesn’t look like the ULEZ cameras, which aren’t wireless, and have been reinforced with angular black metal cases. You can also see the corners of two red triangles and a white sign on the left edge of the image, and a LED variable display in the distance. So our guess was it’s an ANPR-based overheight vehicle detector for an upcoming bridge. Do you know where the photo was taken?
Not London-based but having lived in London in the last decade I take a passing interest. I got 12 marks.
For question 1 I did consider the NR interchange symbols, but my thought was whether they were missing at Terminals 2 & 3 and Terminal 5. Obviously it could be argued that interchange with Heathrow Express is not really useful for Elizabeth Line passengers. I also noted that the Heathrow stations are noted to be in Zone 6, when surely they should be in a “Special Fares Apply” zone.
For question 19, I agree with the challenges in wording.
19 (a) I discounted Barking as the question stated “and not involving terminating services” which I took to exclude the platform 2, 3 and 4 complex as 3 is a terminating platform. I thought about Norwood Junction, but couldn’t remember if platform 2 is in use (I have memories of walking through a carriage from one side to another to get out once!). Stratford, pre TfL Rail / Elizabeth Line days would have met the spec, and possibly still has the potential but I think the EL platforms are solely used for EL services.
19(c) I immediately thought of New Cross. Also thought of Wimbledon as I hadn’t realised the Thameslink platform is bidirectional. Had come up with Elmers End and Battersea Park also. I also think Stratford ( NLL platform to Platform 12) might be in play. I excluded Cheshunt as not within zones 1 -6.
19(e) I had thought about Crystal Palace (assuming platform 3 to platforms 2 and 4 both count, having been given the idea by Highbury & Islington’s cross passages!)
All-in, question 19 in all its parts caused a lot of thought, with several rethinks during December! Even for the parts I didn’t immediately know, I could narrow down the search by knowing that TfL terminating to non-TfL was likely to be Overground or Tram, cross platform in both directions was likely to be the only place the Victoria line touches NR, and non-TfL terminating had to be that odd branch line!
Thanks again for another mind-bending quiz!
The red symbol also appears on the London Overground map at Seven Sisters, even though the Greater Anglia services are not very useful being a way of skipping a couple of stops to Liverpool Street very occasionally. And of course the Overground map still shows the symbol for Edmonton Green despite the Greater Anglia services being withdrawn.
But, as I said, TfL have produced many issues with the alphabetical sorting of “Elizabeth Line” as “TfL Rail” on the diagrams. on the Central Line. They fixed this on the software upgrades to the Liz Line trains (Q3) but the line statuses now show “Overground” sorted as “London Overground”.
Hi there,
Many thanks for the brilliant quiz!
For Q19(a)… the c2c weekend services to Liverpool Street use the Liz platforms at Stratford, so c2c Central line is a very useful interchange actually. I thought the c2c services are well known and regular enough to not be regarded as “coincidental”?
I make my score 20. Always a lot to learn from this! Failed to spot a couple I actually knew – even thought Bank but couldn’t place the intersectio, and even stood by it at the Lord Mayor’s Show (incidentally, I have a very-young memory of a Vic line carriange being in the show, maybe 1968 or 9 – but maybe it’s just wishful thinking as I’ve never traced a photo). Stratford was my first answer for 19A for its weekends-only cross-platform with CTC (who say rather coyly they run “some trains” through Stratford at weekends but it’s actually a regular 30-minute service). I clearly need to do more of the south London stations! Love the R101 question.
Question 7: I seem to recall that there were some strike days when the DLR did not operate to Bank at all, and all trains went to Tower Gateway (this isn’t uncommon when there are engineering works at Bank). But I can’t now be sure whether that did happen or whether it was just an impression gained from the DLR’s messaging, because the messaging was effective enough to get me to take a completely different route on strike days. I wonder what will happen next week if the next round of Tube strikes goes ahead?
Incidentally, I reckon that the intended segregation of arriving and departing passengers at Tower Gateway is a pretty laughable pipedream in practice – particularly during the morning peak, when more passengers alight onto the “wrong” platform than the “right” one.
Question 15: Tower Gateway also has a small office/shop that’s staffed at certain times. I think it’s generally weekends only, but occasionally (and apparently randomly) it may be open on weekdays.
So that was 0/2 for me on the two questions about which I might have had a bit of a clue. As for the rest, I couldn’t even start! But thank you for a quiz that’s been as entertaining as ever.
For those who haven’t yet read them, here is the first part of three on the Imperial Airship Service of the 1920s, and the second part on the R.100 which traveled safely to Canada and back. Part 3 of the series, on the R.101, is nearing completion.
Thanks for the effort in creating the quiz – always a good work out for the brain.
My perception was it was about the same difficulty as other years.
Q15. As mentioned by another commentator, Tower gateway is also staffed at times.
Q19. I think Stratford has to be an acceptable answer. There are the weekend c2c services, but additionally it’s not uncommon for signallers to switch GA services into platforms 5/8 if there is any delay affecting platforms 9/10 (such as a freight train blocking the platform while waiting to cross onto the North London line, or stopping to do a driver swap)
Mark,
Apologies for the delay in replying. Yes I do know where the ULEZ camera picture was taken. It was taken in Shirley, Croydon on the main exit road to the Shrublands estate. It is nowhere near a bridge let alone an underheight one. One of the issues of the Shrublands estate it is nowhere near a railway line – West Wickham and East Croydon are probably the nearest two. This camera, if that is what it is, was put up in 2023 in advance of the ULEZ extension.
There is another one on the GLA boundary by the sign for the Fox pub on the B276 between Caterham-on-the-Hill and Old Coulsdon. In this case there are no convenient traffic lights within the GLA area nearby.
There may be others. They may not be ULEZ cameras (I only said “We believe …”) and no-one has suggested a credible alternative.
Inside the cage it looks like a ULEZ camera as found on traffic lights.
Micheal,
Platform 2 at Norwood Junction is definitely not in use. I think it ceased being in use once slam-door stock disappeared. ORR does not allow it because the third rail is immediately next to it.
Julian Dyer, Island Dweller
I had overlooked Stratford for c2c/Central line at weekends. Or rather I failed to add the condition of a Monday-Friday service which I was thinking of but didn’t specifically state.
It is just further reminder of how carefully one has to word such questions.
Brian Butterworth,
You were not the only one suggesting Seven Sisters but surely this doesn’t apply as cross platform interchange rather than staying on the same platform was required. Or have I missed something?
Thanks! I see the warning triangles are for two separate hazards, which is why we struggled to track it down.
These are odd places for a lone ULEZ camera, given both lanes of Bridle Road are inside the zone, and Coulsdon Road is entirely outside the zone. Streetview shows the Bridle Road camera was put up between 2019 and 2021, and the Fox one has been there since 2012, and 2014 in its current form (which looks like other ANPR cameras from the time). Neither are on any of the ULEZ camera maps, and the similar-looking cameras at the junction with Wickham Road, shown on some maps, aren’t ULEZ because they’ve been there since 2014.
However, I still think there’s a story here. Both are followed (by 60m and 80m, presumably for 20mph and 30mph) by a vehicle-activated speed sign that was put up around the same time and has a matching antenna. The Fox one used to have no antenna and a separate dot matrix display underneath, and was upgraded to be integrated in 2016-2017, when the second (matching) antenna was added to the camera. The March 2021 Streetview capture for Bridle Road shows the numberplate of a speeding car.
So this is ANPR, but for overspeed, not overheight.
The anti-spam didn’t like the links I included, so here’s a link to the VAS on Streetview: https://rack.ms/lr-1
And here’s the local residents still struggling with speeding vehicles: https://rack.ms/lr-2
PoP: I was just Seven Sisters in reference to the red symbol for question 1, not question 19.
[Sorry. I got confused PoP]
As you suspected the (very occasional) Overground/Greater Anglia on that branch at Seven Sisters is a same-platform interchange.
Mark,
Well you have provided pretty good evidence. On a small point the Coulsdon Road camera is right on the GLA border. Also, I believe the ULEZ maps you refer to are unofficial, which I am sure you knew, as, for obvious reasons, TfL do not publish where they are.
I must admit I hadn’t spotted them until this year though you have provided evidence they existed before that.
My only hope of salvation is that, as the cameras already appear to have ANPR capability they have been used to double as ULEZ cameras. But I doubt that is the case.
I am really surprised that they have gone to the trouble of creating such a solid structure to provide a camera for speeding when normally the speeding signs just have the ‘detector’ on the same pole as the led display giving your speed. If they actually use these for prosecutions I can’t really understand why the police need to mount operations in Bridle Road to identify vehicles speeding as indicated by your link to the residents association AGM notes.
I would love to know if these are used for prosecutions or whether the ANPR element is just to name and shame the vehicle speeding.
I think the best thing to do is to void this question in absence of an absolutely definitive answer.
It’s curious. I wonder if they had some negative feedback from residents about ANPR – something that might have tipped them off to the reception of ULEZ enforcement 10 years later.
Re “Bumper Harris” I’m sure I was once told that such a person undertook their task at one of the main shopping emporia when escalators were first introduced, either Harrods or Selfridges.
Question 10 – Some years ago I surveyed a range of contemporary newspapers which reported the opening of the escalators at Earls Court in 1911. In none of them could I find any reference to a disabled man conspicuously riding up and down for demonstration purposes. Indeed, published photographs taken on the first day show crowds of people using the escalators without any show of trepidation (incidentally, there were two in the one shaft, just as today). Where the myth arose I was not able to identify, but I found fairly firm evidence that Bumper Harris was a real person. This was in H G Follenfant’s book Reconstructing London’s Underground (London Transport Executive, 1974). In the preface Follenfant, after first paying tribute to the engineers who designed and oversaw construction and reconstruction of the deep’level tubes, continues:
‘There were [also] the soft ground miners and timbermen, generally Londoners with fathers and sons in Bermondsey and the East End, starting life carrying tea and some finishing as pit bosses, general foremen and inspectors of works, the same names kept appearing, Bumper Harris (with his leg disability), Charlie Lamb, ‘Brownie’, known as ‘Steelpacking’, Jimmie Green, Alf Badden and his host of relations, the Vezey family and two chainmen whose whole lives were spent on tunnelling survey, Curley Bennet and Jock Brown, who was also a cartoonist of considerable ability and made many expressive records of the works and the characters employed on them.’
It seems unlikely that any of the names would be an invention, suggesting instead that Bumper Harris was one of a select band of skilled miners who were employed time and again as the Underground railways were built, extended and reconstructed.