To celebrate the start of the Night Tube service this evening, London Reconnections is pleased to bring you the first episode of On Our Line: Extra.
On Our Line Extras are additional podcast episodes outside of the regular studio cycle. These episodes still focus on all matters transport, but might vary in scope and format from the our regular format. For instance, they may be on very timely topics such as this episode on the Night Tube today.
In this episode, Nicole talks to the man responsible for the implementation of the Night Tube. Kevin Dunning is the Director of Asset and Operational Support for London Underground, and has been responsible for the logistics and preparation for the new 24hr service.
The talk covers a wide range of topics, from the initial planning and engineering challenges, to the testing process, and what we can expect from the service in the months and years to come as it becomes a staple of London life and impacts upon the city.
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Interesting, and great sound quality!
“One of the train-ops missed an announcement”
GOOD, let’s have more of this (!) [ snark ]
[Repetition of oft-uttered deprecation of dangerously loud station announcements snipped. Malcolm]
There is a missing full stop at the end of the second paragraph. [Fixed.]
Good interview. I was quite taken by the statement that Mr Dunning had experienced what his staff do, whether replacing track with the engineering team or sitting with the train operators to understand their role. Is it a TfL approach that management spend time on the front line as it were?
I was also quite surprised that he felt able to say that passengers should take personal responsibility for their own safety. Clearly people should, but in the current litigious climate, how much leeway does he have to back that statement up?
Finally does the recruitment strategy for the extra train operators represent a new market for TfL to investigate? Targeting specific staff for part time employment (including students) seems very sensible, however does it increase total employment costs as supposed to fewer full time members?
Part time staff inevitably cost more (per hour delivered) than full time, as training, recruitment and admin costs are per person (rather than per full-time-equivalent).
But of course it makes sense to use them where there are particular circumstances justifying it – and two nights per week at times which full time staff are bound to find unpopular seems like an ideal case for part-timers. Sad that management did not realise this earlier before entering into conflict with the unions – though hindsight is wonderful!
@ Snowy – assuming that is Kevin Dunning being referred to [1] then he’s been around a fair while and is pretty “hands on” in his approach. He’s done very well for himself having seen his current job title on the telly recently. We got on pretty well together when I was involved in matters “asset management” many moons ago. It is (or certainly was) TfL policy for senior managers to be required to “experience” front line jobs alongside those who do them day in, day out. It was being introduced around the time I left TfL. You will excuse my “unreconstructed” view that it’s a tad ironic that senior staff be “forced” to do this sort of thing. Anyone with a decent interest in their job should be more than aware of what their team does. How can you manage if you don’t “understand”? There is also nothing to stop people picking up a phone and talking to a colleague if you wished to learn about something entirely new – subject to this being managed properly and with your boss’s consent.
In “ancient times” there were also voluntary night classes at the railway training centre (before it was swept away in favour of Westfield London) that anyone could attend. You could learn about almost all aspects of the operating railway in these classes and there were exams at the end. I did several of these classes over several years. Naturally enough this valuable way of building knowledge and relationships with people across the railway was swept away in a cost cutting move 20 odd years ago.
[1] I haven’t listened to the podcast.
WW……..estimating when you left TfL, Kevin Dunning left afterwards but came back later.
@100&30 – interesting. That would make sense as things weren’t looking too rosy for him back then. Obviously “reinvented” himself in his period of absence. I don’t do “reinvention” 😛
According to TfL press release over 50,000 on the first night on the Central and Victoria lines. Oxford Circus had 6,500 entries and Stratford had 4,250 exits. Presumably these were the busiest for entries and exits respectively.
Will be interesting to see how the night buses were affected. Stratford bus station must have been busy.
@ Evergreenadam – purely anecdotal from someone (not me) who was out and about. Route 25 was apparently much quieter at Mile End whereas it’d normally be packed during the night. Stratford bus station was busy and there were a lot of police in attendance. TfL have recently strengthened / added a couple of night bus routes at Stratford and the 158 was added for weekends only last night.
If there is a sustained patronage drop on the (N)25 then this will add more ammunition to the much expected “massacre” of the route in the run up to Crossrail services starting. TfL reduced the recently commenced contract term for the route which suggests a very radical set of changes in under 2-3 years. I don’t think it will retain its crown as the busiest route in London once TfL are finished with it.
I think it’s clear there will be a change in demand on night buses due to the night tube. I certainly would not have spent so much time on them throughout my 20s if I could get the jubilee home. It’s sensible then for TfL to shift resources but obviously they shouldn’t use it as an excuse to take an axe to bus services.
I’m interested to see how this impacts hire car services. A taxi from central out to zone 3 and beyond is expensive, especially the outer sphere of the city. However, a cab from, say Wembley to Harrow or Tooting to Norbury becomes much more attractive, especially if there is more than one person using it. The ease of Uber and taxi ranks outside some stations might dent an expected surge on buses at tube stations.
@ Anonymous – and yet there is apparently a massive waiting list for new taxi ranks, especially in the suburbs. I read recently that a paltry budget, in the few thousands of pounds, has been the typical annual budget that TfL have set aside. It would apparently take many decades to clear the waiting list. Hopefully there might be a change in funding priorities that might provide some extra local ranks where they are needed.
I see the Jubilee Line’s night tube is now scheduled to start on 7th October. No news yet about Northern or Piccadilly lines.
@ Quinlet – I’d hazard a guess at about 4-5 weeks later for Northern and Picc. In time for the main build up to Christmas and enough time for Jubilee to bed down. That sort of time period seems to be the typical gap between launches.
TfL FOI release of night bus usage on first weekend of night tube 19th and 20th August.
Figures for new night bus service on existing day routes:
34 – 71 FRI/150 SAT
123 – 156 FRI/206 SAT
145 – 104 FRI/141 SAT
158 – 95 SAT/141 SAT
296 – 94 FRI/114 SAT
E1 – 69 FRI/75 SAT
W3 – 194 FRI/175 SAT
W7 – 138 FRI/243 SAT
Figures for recently introduced night bus service on existing day routes:
47 -285 FRI/277 SAT
222 – 388 FRI/373 SAT
238 – 614 FRI/596 SAT
Significant falls of patronage apparent on existing routes N8, N25, N38, N73, N205 and N207. Route N8 appears worst affected.
Newer routes will time to build patronage as the night tube becomes established and summer time is quieter anyway, so only a snapshot but interesting nonetheless. 238 seems the star performer so far, being used far more people than many older night bus routes.
In south east London, some night bus routes are struggling without the Jubilee Line night tube at North Greenwich, although this is about to change. The figures may also be affected by fluctuations in events at the 02 Arena.
N132 – 65 FRI/ 67 SAT
N472 – 116 FRI/117 SAT
N486 – 50 FRI/56 SAT
N154 is doing better, particularly on Saturday nights:
108 FRI/ 176 SAT
@ Evergreenadam – was this a personal FOI request as I can’t see anything obvious on the “Whatdotheyknow” site? Interesting info but as you say very early days and things will change and then change again until the Night Tube is fully introduced. The 123 is my obvious interest and let’s say 200 people per night isn’t too bad given there are only 14 (15 on Sats) departures in total as the day route starts early and finishes late. The N472 numbers are a tad surprising given that’s been running for years in comparison to the others. As you say the Night Jubilee Line will make all the difference.
Not too shocked about the 238 as it’s a nightly service and ran during the Olympics and on NYE so people have been “tantalised” in the past plus there is a greater use of night services in East London to / from main centres like Stratford and Barking. Linking the two at Night was always going to work. Ditto linking Uxbridge into the north side of Heathrow / Bath Rd and into Hounslow. Very busy in the daytime so again almost assured of instant success. I’d hope the N154 was being used after the years of clamour and campaigning when the N213 was summarily withdrawn. If people weren’t using it it would rather invalidate all the campaign effort and allow TfL to leave the area completely unserved.
Personal FOI request immediately after the first weekend of the night tube.