In Part 1 of “Big Changes” we took a look at London Underground’s proposed plan for running nocturnal Tube services. Here in Part 2 we now turn to the other major change to the Underground that was announced at the same time – the decision to completely overhaul the process by which passengers buy tickets and interact with staff at every station on Underground.
There is no doubt that these changes will prove controversial. Indeed astute readers will have already noticed that the introductory paragraph of this article resorted to almost Mwmbwlsian rhetoric in order to avoid using the phrase “ticket offices.” There is a good reason for this.
“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
In the twin worlds of politics and transport language is important. Words and terms carry, and can become loaded, with meaning. Given the complexity of transport planning and operation, terms can often carry a different, more specific, meaning for the professional than they do for the layman. In a world where news is often delivered in snippets and, almost as consequence, politics is dominated by the soundbite this can often lead to confusion – situations where the eternal greys of London’s transport reality are portrayed, sometimes deliberately, as being entirely black and white.
The debate over “driverless trains” has become the veritable poster child of the above. To the majority of the public (and to some politicians), this is a debate over whether the Underground should be fully automated and unmanned or not. The reality, however, is that “driverless” is a largely meaningless term – one that at best vaguely described a whole raft of complex future possibilities, some of which are already in operation across the network. This has not, however, stopped individuals on all sides of the debate from using and abusing this now emotive term. Often it is accidental, but sometimes it is not, for a truth misinterpreted is so much more useful than a lie.
This may seem like a tangental discussion, but if the coverage so far of TfL’s proposed changes is any guide then there is one phrase that, in this way, seems set to give “driverless trains” a run for its money in the coming year – and that phrase is “ticket office.” Before we explore the proposals in detail, therefore, it seems best to define clearly some terms used:
Ticket Hall: An area within an Underground station set aside for passengers to purchase tickets in. May include both ticket machines and a ticket office.
Ticket Office: The area within the ticket hall where tickets are purchased directly from staff. Normally a window or set of windows.
With our terms thus defined we can now begin to look at the facts, so far as they are available, of TfL’s current proposal, before finally looking at some of the politics involved.
The story so far
In March 2010 London Underground consulted on the possibility of reducing some ticket office opening hours and closing down nine ticket offices entirely. The resulting report was not intended to be for public consumption but, somewhat inevitably, it soon leaked out. That this was anything other than a concept document was something that both TfL and the Mayor (who had campaigned on a promise of no ticket office closures) were swift to proclaim.
It was, however, too late. Ticket offices had became both a political and semantic battleground – one that, in September 2010, resulted in what Boriswatch described rather aptly as a “mass flounce” by the Conservative members of the London Assembly, who walked out of a plenary session en masse in order to prevent a motion asking TfL to clarify their position on the future of ticket offices from being heard. By then, however, TfL’s message had already begun to firm up – only 1 in 20 journeys on the Underground began with a visit to a ticket office and indeed some ticket offices were now regularly selling fewer than 10 tickets an hour. Reduced operating hours and closures would save £25m a year and thus it was an option they were keen to at least explore, impolitic as it may be. As Sir Peter Hendy accurately, if perhaps a tad too bluntly, once put it:
If you want to read a lot of good novels the best place to do that is as a booking clerk in a suburban Underground station.
By November 2011 TfL’s preferred approach to future ticket sales had arguably become clear. Once again, this came about due to the leak of an internal consultation – this time an Operational Strategy Discussion Paper that, with its open discussion of ticket office changes and driverless trains had London’s news media frantically reaching for the 72pt type.
It is this paper that is inarguably the father of proposals detailed on Thursday. The overall approach to staffing is the same, as is the approach suggested for the physical offices themselves. As we wrote in our detailed coverage of that report:
The current ticket hall, it argues, presents travellers with the choice between either a full human experience at the ticket window or a more limited (but often quicker) experience at the ticket machine with little human support. This is already out of balance with how the majority of users now use the network and, with Wave and Pay, will be even more out of balance in the medium-to-long term. This, the Paper argues, is bad for customers and London Underground’s finances.
Instead, the Paper suggests that the average ticket hall should comprise automatic ticket machines with comparable functionality to the current ticket office (including the ability to offer refunds, resolve journeys and sell Oyster Cards) supported by staff in the hall itself taking a more proactive customer service role.
In order to achieve the above, the Paper argues, there would need to be a long term, staged plan that would see ticket machines replaced and upgraded to add not only the newly required feature set, but also a much improved User Interface. It would also see the complete reworking of machine and ticket hall frontage, the revaluation and simplification of signage and instructions, and essentially a wholesale overhaul of the ticket hall environment.
Alongside this technical and environmental overhaul, would come an overhaul in staff roles and responsibilities in relation to ticketing. Sources suggest the Paper argues largely for ending the demarcation between station operation and transactions/customer support.
The similarities between the concepts proposed in 2011 and the future laid out on Thursday is pretty clear.
Getting down to the facts
So what, then, are the new proposals specifically?
The approach, broadly speaking, is as outlined above. As TfL’s press release explains:
[R]ather than being remote from customers behind closed doors or glass windows, Tube station staff will not be based in ticket offices, but in ticket halls, on gate lines and on platforms, ready and available to give the best personal and face-to-face service to customers.
As now, all Tube stations will continue to be staffed and controlled in future, with more staff visible and available than today in ticket halls and on gate lines and with the same number of staff on platforms. Staff equipped with the latest mobile technology, such as tablet computers, will be able to monitor and manage stations on the move.
As is clear, this will mean changes to staff roles, particularly those currently focused on the supervisory aspect of station control. Indeed it is this that TfL clearly believe will allow them to maintain the same public staffing levels whilst also achieving a 750 net reduction in overall staffing.
Just how such staffing changes will be managed remains to be seen. This is not surprising, for it will prove the hardest change both to define and to sell to staff themselves in an organisation where relations with management are far from being simple or healthy.
The operational model that TfL ultimately wish to move to, however, is now clear. At its core lies the decision to shift to an operational model that, from 2015, puts every station on the network into one of four categories. Those categories each broadly describe the way passengers interact with those stations and how those stations interact with the network. Thus whilst the stations may be physically and geographically different, they share enough common properties that their physical ticketing and staffing arrangements can largely be approached in a similar way.
Each of those four categories is described below, along with a list of the stations that TfL have indicated would likely fall within it. Obviously individual station classifications are currently provisional and subject to consultation.
Gateway Stations
Euston Station, an example of a Gateway Station
Gateway Stations are those which represent the main entry points for visitors (both from within the UK and without) onto the network. They thus need to be both staffed and equipped to deal with a high percentage of passengers unfamiliar with the Underground who thus both require, and seek out, face to face support.
Although under the proposals all stations will lose their ticket offices, Gateway Stations will be equipped with “Visitor Information Centres” (VICs). These will be equipped to handle all traditional ticket office functionality – including both ticket sales and the ability to issue oyster refunds – but also, interestingly, more tourist specific functionality as well. This includes both tourist information and national rail ticket sales, and what TfL have clearly identified as potential additional revenue streams – tickets for the theatre and tourist attractions and Tube-related merchandise.
The proposed Gateway Stations (six in total) are currently:
| Euston | Heathrow Terminals 123 | King’s Cross St. Pancras |
| Liverpool Street | Paddington | Victoria |
Destination Stations
Embankment, an example of a Destination Station
These are stations that form part of the urban fabric of London, almost always within the centre. Like Gateways they feature a high level of traffic, mixing both regular and irregular users, but generally have a higher level of “exits” at key times than entries. As can be seen from the diagram above, without a ticket office staff are intended to circulate in the ticket hall assisting passengers with transactions there.
| Baker Street | Bank & Monument | Bond Street |
| Camden Town | Canada Water | Canary Wharf |
| Earl’s Court | Elephant & Castle | Embankment |
| Farringdon | Finsbury Park | Gloucester Road |
| Green Park | Highbury & Islington | Holborn |
| Leicester Square | London Bridge | Moorgate |
| North Greenwich | Notting Hill Gate | Oxford Circus |
| Piccadilly Circus | South Kensington | Stratford |
| Tottenham Court Road | Waterloo | Wembley Park |
| Westminster |
Metro Stations
Chancery Lane, an example of a Metro Station
The Metro category encompasses stations that predominantly serve inner-London and commuter areas, with the expectation clearly being that the majority of travellers are familiar with the network.
| Acton Town | Aldgate | Aldgate East |
| Angel | Archway | Arnos Grove |
| Arsenal | Balham | Bayswater |
| Barbican | Belsize Park | Bermondsey |
| Bethnal Green | Blackfriars | Blackhorse Road |
| Borough | Bounds Green | Bow Road |
| Brixton | Caledonian Road | Canning Town |
| Cannon Street | Chalk Farm | Chancery Lane |
| Charing Cross | Clapham Common | Clapham North |
| Clapham South | Cockfosters | Colliers Wood |
| Covent Garden | Edgware Road (Bak) | Edgware Road (H&C) |
| Euston Square | Finchley Road | Fulham Broadway |
| Gants Hill | Goodge Street | Great Portland Street |
| Hammersmith (D&P) | Hampstead | Harrow & Wealdstone |
| Harrow-on-the-Hill | Hatton Cross | Heathrow Terminal 4 |
| High Street Kensington | Highgate | Holland Park |
| Holloway Road | Hounslow West | Hyde Park Corner |
| Kennington | Kentish Town | Kilburn Park |
| Knightsbridge | Lambeth North | Lancaster Gate |
| Maida Vale | Manor House | Mansion House |
| Marylebone | Marble Arch | Mile End |
| Morden | Mornington Crescent | Oakwood |
| Old Street | Oval | Pimlico |
| Queen’s Park | Queensway | Redbridge |
| Regent’s Park | Russell Square | Seven Sisters |
| Shepherd’s Bush | Sloane Square | South Wimbledon |
| Southgate | Southwark | St. James’s Park |
| St. John’s Wood | St. Paul’s | Stepney Green |
| Stockwell | Swiss Cottage | Temple |
| Tooting Broadway | Tooting Bec | Tottenham Hale |
| Tower Hill | Tufnell Park | Turnpike Lane |
| Vauxhall | Walthamstow Central | Wanstead |
| Warren Street | Warwick Avenue | Wembley Central |
| West Ham | Whitechapel | Wood Green |
Local Stations
Greenford, an example of a local station
Local Stations are generally smaller stations, mainly in outer London, or those where only a very small number of ticket office sales are made. These are the stations that will likely see the biggest change in terms in staffing, although perhaps not from a public facing perspective. This is because here the station supervisor role is likely to change, resulting in one supervisor covering a number of stations.
| Alperton | Amersham | Barkingside |
| Barons Court | Becontree | Boston Manor |
| Brent Cross | Bromley-by-Bow | Buckhurst Hill |
| Burnt Oak | Canons Park | Chalfont & Latimer |
| Chesham | Chigwell | Chiswick Park |
| Chorleywood | Colindale | Croxley |
| Dagenham East | Dagenham Heathway | Debden |
| Dollis Hill | Ealing Broadway | Ealing Common |
| Ealing West | East Acton | East Finchley |
| East Ham | East Putney | Eastcote |
| Edgware | Elm Park | Epping |
| Fairlop | Finchley | Finchley Central |
| Golders Green | Goldhawk Road | Grange Hill |
| Greenford | Gunnersbury | Hammersmith (H&C) |
| Hanger Lane | Harlesden | Hendon Central |
| High Barnet | Hillingdon | Hornchurch |
| Hounslow Central | Hounslow East | Ickenham |
| Kensal Green | Kenton | Kew Gardens |
| Kilburn | Kingsbury | Ladbroke Grove |
| Latimer Road | Leyton | Leytonstone |
| Loughton | Hainault | Mill Hill East |
| Moor Park | Neasden | North Acton |
| North Harrow | Northfields | Northwick Park |
| Northwood Hills | Park Royal | Perivale |
| Plaistow | Putney Bridge | Ravenscourt Park |
| Roding Valley | Ruislip | Ruislip Manor |
| Snaresbrook | South Harrow | South Ruislip |
| Southfields | Stanmore | Sudbury Hill |
| Theydon Bois | Newbury Park | North Ealing |
| North Wembley | Northolt | Northwood South |
| Osterley | Parsons Green | Pinner |
| Preston Road | Queensbury | Rayners Lane |
| Rickmansworth | Royal Oak | Ruislip Gardens |
| Shepherd’s Bush Market | South Kenton | South Woodford |
| Stamford Brook | Stonebridge Park | Sudbury Town |
| Totteridge & Whetstone | Turnham Green | Upminster Bridge |
| Upney | Upton Park | Uxbridge |
| Watford | West Acton | West Brompton |
| West Hampstead | West Harrow | West Kensington |
| West Ruislip | Westbourne Park | White City |
| Willesden Green | Wimbledon Park | Wood Lane |
| Woodford | Woodside Park |
Weighing up the changes
All the above may finally make TfL’s future intentions official but it also largely reflects that which has been expected from them for some time. As a result both the arguments for and against these changes have been well covered here before.
From TfL’s perspective the positives are clear. Simplifying both the physical operations and the management and role structure within stations themselves will lead to financial savings and perhaps by overhauling roles, in the process, help to breakdown some of the long-standing issues between management and staff. The last goal may not be one that TfL will ever publicly state, but it will almost certainly have crossed a number of minds within the organisation itself.
Therein, though, lies the problem. For whilst TfL may have have developed a solid reputation in the last fifteen years as both a deliverer of large-scale projects and as a railway operator, the same cannot be said for industrial relations and its ability to deliver and manage effective organisational change. This is by no means solely TfL’s fault, but it must still deal with the consequences – one of which is that it is very hard to engineer successful organisational change when there’s little trust to be found between management and staff.
Playing politics
It is this that provides some clue as to why TfL are clearly working to couple the new Night Tube arrangements with this overhaul of station staffing. For the truth is that for the overwhelming majority of passengers the changes to the way ticket halls work will have very little effect on the way they interact with the network. As TfL have spent two years – correctly – pointing out, the sale of tickets via ticket offices has plummeted since the introduction of Oyster. Shifting staff roles to focus on interaction with the passenger in ticket halls, correctly implemented, would also ensure that the ticket office’s secondary role as a source of information for most travellers is still met. For the average commuter there is thus neither anything particularly positive or negative to be found in the case for making this change.
Disruption however, whether due to industrial action or difficulties in implementing the new arrangements, is something that most regular travellers will notice. By linking the Night Tube and the organisation changes in the public conscience TfL thus help to ensure that the public will feel it has a stake in the game.
For the Mayor, it is an approach that also holds considerable appeal. As mentioned above, a promise that there would be no ticket office closures featured prominently in his election manifesto (bolding his):
I will also defend local ticket offices. Ken Livingstone plans to close a large number of ticket offices at Tube stations, predominantly in outer London because he claims that the increase in Oyster use has made them surplus to requirements. However, what he has not taken into account is that local people feel it is important there is a manned ticket office at their station, as often there are not enough Oyster outlets in the local area.
There has been little consultation with local residents, and I think it is wrong that some local stations could lose this service. I will stop the planned ticket office closures, and focus on increasing the number of Oyster outlets in outer London so local people have greater access to Oyster.
It is also a position that he has repeatedly reiterated since, including a very public, almost angry, outburst in front of the London Assembly in 2010:
The first and most important point to make is that no ticket offices will be closed, alright? They’re not going to be closed.
Given all the above, the current proposals represent a considerable political u-turn – one that the commencement of Night Tube services in 2015 would go a long way to helping the public either forget or accept.
The real cost
Ultimately whatever the benefits and costs for both TfL and the travelling majority, and whatever the politics behind the decision to link the Night Tube to the organisational changes, the real cost of the proposed changes will likely fall on two groups.
The first of those, TfL’s own station staff, should at least find themselves supported through the change. TfL’s own commitment to avoiding both past and future mistakes with regards to organisational changes seems genuine, and if the execution turns out to leave something to be desired then they will certainly be able to count on the support of the Unions, who have already made their own opposition to the changes abundantly clear.
The second, however, are less well represented – those individuals who make up the 3% of ticket office sales, and the hidden (albeit small) percentage who rely on the Underground’s ticket offices (both centrals and locally) both for advice and to deal with transactions that the current automated ticketing arrangements are unable to service.
To a very real extent the success or failure of these proposals will rest on how well the new arrangements ultimately address this final group’s needs. For many businesses – and indeed Train Operators – focusing primarily on the needs of the majority is an understandable practice. TfL, however, have always proudly asserted their position as the UK’s only integrated publicly-owned railway operator and with that, many would argue, comes a duty to try and cater to the needs of the minority as well.
In the coming months it will thus be interesting to see just how TfL’s plans develop.
Those looking for further information on TfL’s overall “Fit For the Future” project can find more information on their new sub site here. We recommend reading this presentation on their station changes in particular.
I have an email from tfl, 7 Apr 2015:
“I am writing to let you know that we are now carrying out improvement work at Stratford Tube station; this is part of our plans to modernise the Tube. As a result, we are making changes to the ticket hall and the ticket windows are now permanently closed.
We have moved our staff into the ticket hall where they can assist you more effectively; the station will continue to be staffed between the first and last train times. ”
So, out of interest, what is this?
https://plus.google.com/+BrianButterworth/posts/8FVHbV3sNYK – taken 17/05/2015, 12:28
https://plus.google.com/+BrianButterworth/posts/7qrcZ9zDYcA – taken 15/05/15, 9:41
How is this “we have moved our staff into the ticket hall where they can assist you more effectively…. ” ?
@Briantist – the second photo shows NR ticket machines. Is the photo of NR ticket windows?
@ Briantist – at Stratford there are separate National Rail ticket windows. There was a row with the LRPC (London Regional Passengers Committee) when the JLE was being built as to what ticketing would apply at Stratford when LU took over the management. I was involved in the row – hence why I know what transpired. The issue was the range of tickets and destinations that LU handles relative to a BR (as it was then) station – LU cannot handle nationwide ticketing. In the end LU took over but NR windows had to be provided as the decision was taken not to remove nationwide ticket retailing from Stratford. It seems this standard still applies. That principle also poses an interesting issue north of Queens Park where LU took the stations over but National Rail ticketing was retained. I wonder if LU will ever be able to implement its planned closures at these locations? Also applies at Gunnersbury and Kew Gardens.
Some NR tickets were available at West Brompton, but not sure what the position is now.
@NR
The photos are from the Westfield entrance which has a mixture of NR and TfL ticket machines. There isn’t since the changes anyone at these windows. They have TfL branding, not NR.
@WW
Thanks for the details. It is interesting that these windows are normally closed since the changes. There are going to be many fewer NR destinations from next month when TfL•Rail takes over the Shenfield line stations, as the only Direct NR trains from Stratford will be the two an hour to Cheshunt via Tottenham Hale!
@Briantist What about the Norwich, Southend, Colchester and Clacton services?
Brainiest. I don’t think that’s quite right. Although tfl-rail are taking over these services, they’re still part of the national rail system. Tfl are choosing to introduce their standards of station staffing (which is generally a good thing). But surely national rail ticket rules can’t be ignored. As a passenger from (say) Maryland can currently buy a ticket from there to (say) Hyndland, they surely must still have that possibility next month, even though tfl-rail are operating the trains/station.
Relating specifically to Stratford, thanks for the explanation on why there is a separate ticket window there for Greater Anglia. I’ve always found the GA window under staffed, with some horrid queues.
…I just realised you are referring to trains terminating/starting at Stratford.
@Pincinator
Those are already the only non-TfL services terminating at Stratford, and have been since TfL took over the North London Line service.
timbeau @ 20 May 2015 at 16:15
“@Pincinator
Those are already the only non-TfL services terminating at Stratford”
That’s correct, but all Southend and Southminster services call at Stratford, as do most mainline services.
@ Briantist – you’re incorrect about remaining NR services. All main line services, including those procured by TfL, are part of the National Rail network. One of the reasons why Stratford is now so immensely busy is that so many trains now call there. That’s largely driven off the development of Docklands. Therefore all the trains to Norwich, Harwich, Clacton, Braintree and Southend also count as NR trains for which NR ticket selling is needed. That is actually quite different from the time before the JLE reached Stratford. Back then the level of BR service calls was much lower – you certainly couldn’t get a direct Norwich train from Stratford in those days. The station was also a pretty dire place to use.
D-G has something to say on this subject, given recent changes.
What I notice is the tremendous difference in “service” offered.
Not mentioned, I think, is that some of these places are surprisingly hard to find.
And, of course, IMHO, that all major termini should have one.
OK, trying again.
Wasn’t there supposed to be a “new” approach to staffing at tube stations, especially truly underground ones?
With more staff in attendance?
Sunday morning, 20th September, just before 08.00 ….
No staff visible at all at Walthamstow Central Victoria line.
None at the auto-gates at the top of the escalators, with the “entry” gates open. None visible in any of the cross-passages, nor on the southerly platform.
I wonder what would have happened in an emergency, such as a person being taken ill, or needing immediate assistance?
Was this contrary to all the supposed operating instructions & safety-cases?
@ Greg – based on what I’ve briefly read in the latest Board paper info the new staffing concept isn’t yet fully deployed even though ticket offices are closing.
On my fairly limited travels on the tube I have seen several instances where there are no staff present or at least not visible in ticket halls. I suspect someone, somewhere is watching a CCTV monitor or 6 but that’s not what was stated. I’ve seen Walthamstow Central with absolutely no staff anywhere and the gateline fully operational – not sure how that works. I happened to go through Kings Cross last week when the North ticket hall ticket office was still open (now closed) – massive queues of people with three clerks working to serve them. No queues in the tube ticket hall as I assume people went where there was obvious assistance. My general impression is that staff are doing the absolute bare minimum they can get away with or there are not enough staff at some locations. I’ve yet to see the “breezy, bouncy super dooper helpful proactive” staff armed with their I-Pads [1] that the blurb promised. I also think a fair slice of the public hate using machines and may well be adopting other purchase strategies which are not on the LU network. I can’t prove that but I’d not be surprised if it was the case.
[1] apparently these have been bought but some of the supporting IT infrastructure is running late. You couldn’t make it up.
OH, dear
It would appear that even the Evening Standard, which cheer-led for the ticket-office closures may be having second thoughts.
An interesting read.
Opinion: Closing the ticket offices at the main line termini was a serious mistake, especially since “foreign” bank-cards won’t work on contactless & even the Oyster machines may not do so (?)
I also note the usual, breezy, TfL/LUL response that “everything is working perfectly” – when it all too obviously isn’t?
Does anyone have any better information on this fraught matter?
Greg,
Lets try and get some sense of objectivity instead of our usual assumptions that doom has just arrived.
I go through Victoria on many occasions. The queues are horrendous. There is a long organised queue just to use the ticket machines. I have no idea how long it takes to go through it but I would be really suprised if it was anything like an hour. A long single queue always looks daunting but if for multiple machines it is surprising how quickly it can shift. Think of the long queues at Post Offices that actually move quite fast.
The main point is though The situation appears to be unchanged. It always was ever thus. Even when we had the ticket office. And it is nothing new. I was probably only just wearing long trousers when I can remember when there wasn’t an endemic queue there.
It may be that with the closure of the ticket office they will be able to install far more ticket machines. What will be far more relevant is what the situation would be like in six months time.
A factor could be that Gatwick was supposed to have already been “Oysterised” by now meaning you might not have got the hordes descending from the latest Gatwick Airport that had just arrived. By the way, the TfL travel centre at Gatwick is a little booth right by the arrivals exit in the north terminal but when I was last there it was staffed but no-one was using it.
Again when it comes to bank cards and contact payments can we try and not make presumptions (that are usually wrong)? TfL has to (or had to) negotiate with every separate bank for their bank card to be available on TfL services. At the time of launch there were something like 50 foreign banks that had agreed and so their cards could work. It is an ongoing process so I would imagine it is much higher now. A separate problem, particularly for those from some countries, may be that you to have successfully had at least one chip + pin transaction before your card will be accepted for contact payments.
So hardly perfect and no doubt masses of room for improvement, which will happen, but not as described.
For information, and to draw a comparison with what is held as the Gold Standard for intergrated ticketing, I was in the Netherlands last week on an organised tour. They have integrated ticketing which works across all modes. However there are some significant challenges for tourists…………
1) Non Dutch chip and pin cards don’t work on their ticket machines, nor on their web site.
2) The only cash ticket machines seemed to take was coins
3) Every train ticket has a smart chip for which a premium of €1 is charged.
4) The work around for foreign web sales, apparently, is to use the Belgium SNCB web site, even for journeys wholly in the Netherlands.
As a footnote, each of us on the tour had NS day tickets which were not valid on other operators’ services. It was amusing to see what a poor Arriva bus driver had to do with a pad of tiny tickets and a rubber stamp machine when 25 of us turned up to catch his bus in Dortrecht! A 30 sec dwell turned into 3 minutes.
@100+30 – Indeed, I noted advice from one DSutch correspondent in the trade press that if – as one does -one landed at Schipol with a wad of banknotes and wished to buy a railway ticket, the best (only?) way to do so was to find a friendly Dutchman with a lot of coin. The scope for misunderstanding seemed large…
@100+30 – I landed at Schipol October 2014 and my HBOS card worked fine in the machines. However I did get notified by text from my bank that my card had just been used in Belgium! Caused me a bit of worry until I assumed it was some technicality of the Benelux countries!
@Graham H
You can have a similar experience if you arrive at Heathrow, or indeed any main line station in London, and want to continue by bus.
@timbeau – I suppose so – a staff pass is a great cocoon against the problem.
Victoria and queues. Not an hour, but I have waited over 25 minutes at the ticket office queue. Especially galling to have to join that queue – given that I had already queued at a ticket machine only to find that the machines at Victoria are programmed not to sell a railcard fare….
As pointed out above – other countries are problematic for visitors too. In NY you can pay with a credit card at the MTA machines – but these ask for a ZIP code…. (Foreign visitors should just ignore it and press enter – it then works, as I discovered by pure trial and error).
The comments by visitors on the “Standard” page were relevant:
“London is supposed to be an International City, open for business, but we can’t even by a “subway” ticket!”
OK, there may be exaggeration & similar problems elsewhere, but ….
“A long single queue always looks daunting but if for multiple machines it is surprising how quickly it can shift. Think of the long queues at Post Offices that actually move quite fast.”
Bloody hell what post office is that?! Torturous at my local ones. The best are the ones where you take a ticket and wait for your number.
I’ve also had a fair few issues abroad with using machines. However, I cut them some slack as single fares are almost always less than UK equivalents (often far less) and weekly tickets, which tourists are likely to use, are substantially less, in just about every EU, American or Asian city.
@Graham H
“a staff pass is a great cocoon against the problem”
Which is, I suspect, part of the problem: staff, including the bigwigs, never have to use the machines or the ticket offices. In the same way they can be blissfully unaware of inadequacies in the signage, because they know their way around.
@timbeau – “fortunately” our families bring us back to reality (or should do). personally, I am also a great believer in the “management by walking about” so disliked by consultants
@ timbeau – I think you’re probably right up to a point. Years ago we had a “team building” day. This involved a range of tasks to get us LU office wallahs to experience the “real railway”. One such task involved going to Canary Wharf and using the ticket machines to buy a cash ticket back to Zone 1. My colleagues had no idea at all how much a ticket was or how to buy one. It took me a few seconds (yeah I know – show off!) and I knew exactly how much it would cost. They were also horrified at the price and that was long before cash fares went to today’s astronomic levels. I think they suddenly appreciated how much money their staff pass saved them!
On the signing issue then yes anyone doing a regular trip ignores the signs. However few staff have a complete knowledge of every station on the system and every possible route, entry or exit point etc. I’m pretty good but not as good as I used to be. Given the scale of works anyone can get caught out – I got completely wrong footed at Kings Cross a few months ago when they were replacing the three short N Line escalators. Not wanting to walk for a mile round KX tube station I had to change my entire route. Plenty of other places where I have to rely on signs like everyone else – those weird places like Kingston and Croydon with their mystical ever changing town centre layouts. Try finding where to catch a bus near West Croydon at the moment or finding a bus that isn’t subject to diversion because of road works! Or using any railway station in South London – I don’t know those stations at all. I recently looked up the layout of Norwood Junction station (given comments on here) – what a bamboozling mess and especially in relation to where the buses stop.
Not every staff pass holder is possessed of extraordinary transport knowledge. Most know their regular commute and that’s about it. Many will readily use a car at weekends for shopping, leisure and family trips and be clueless about their local bus and rail services. Many don’t even live in London so their pass is useless to them unless they’re coming up to London for some specific purpose. If they do use public transport then they’re just a punter like everyone else and possessed of about the same level of clue. Enthusiasts are pretty incapable of switching off their knowledge levels for the systems they know and use. It’s only when thrown into completely uncharted territory that they might act the same as “ordinary” people. I say “might” because most enthusiasts can read timetables, suss out what might be going on around them or be able to work out how to find out more info. I might not be able to read or understand much German but it didn’t take me long to suss out when the S Bahn in Berlin wasn’t working as expected due to engineering works. I could spot the tell tale signs based on UK experience.
Graham H
“management by walking about” so disliked by consultants
And as practised by the great & still missed Gerry Feinnes, of course.
WW
Exactly.
The first time I went to Paris (1985?) I was really bothered about finding my way around – for about a minute – after which I realised that it was “Just another metro system” – provided I checked the map before I entered a station & remembered the “Direction” labelling, it all worked fine. At the same time, I was observing French provincials who were completely flummoxed/lost.
@ Greg – and yet my first visit to Paris had me completely flummoxed by the Metro signage. It had never dawned on me that the signs wouldn’t be like London. When it wasn’t, getting around was a tad difficult plus I couldn’t find Auber RER having alighted at St Lazare from the night boat train. Yes I know they’re very close but first time in a place and being very unfamiliar. If nothing else it taught me an important lesson about being flexible in how you approach getting around new places. These days with the internet and smartphones it’s a different world.
I was due to meet a friend at Gare de Lyon for a TGV trip to Lyon. We said “what does every stn have one of?” “Oh yes, a platform 1”. Unfortunately G de Lyon doesn’t have a platform one and is also on several levels and in two sections. I was downstairs, he was upstairs and I only found him when I heard my name on the PA and went wandering! There had recently been a terrorist outrage in France which meant the menacing CRS, laden with automatic weapons, were patrolling all the stations and looking at lost strangers with great suspicion. We still got to Lyon though after much poor French being spoken at the ticket office and getting reservations changed. So there you go, I can be just as hopeless as everyone else. Still a fun trip though and witnessed an argument over seats on the return TGV where a man memorably called a woman a cow. “Vous etes une vache, madame” – never forgotten that one. The TGV ride was like nothing else at the time – so fast. I then got the night train / boat back via Dieppe / Newhaven with vague memories of sharing too much ouzo with other travellers on the train back. That was back when I did stupid things like go to Lyon for the day by train. 🙂
Ah yes.
Victoria – Newhaven – Dieppe G St Lazare
Done that – although I have done all the “short sea crossings” from Dover/Folkestone, I’ve never go forwards from there by train, unlike another “lost crossing”:
Manchester – Heysham – Belfast ( & then Gt Victoria St – Dublin Amiens Street & on to Inchicore by bus.
Long ago days.
[Interesting diversions but these trips overseas are now over. LBM]
A question – as this seems the most appropriate thread.
As all of us know, TfL have said they will no longer be taking corporate cheques for annual season tickets …..
“The Boss” season expires soon – a “paper” Gold-Card Annual, point-to-point.
[ LST – WHC ]
How does she, or anyone else, for that matter, now manage to get an annual season ticket?
Her employer, like many others, offers an interest-free loan on “annuals”, deducted monthly from her salary, but the apparently difficult bit is……………………..
How does she go about finding a station that will accept payment from her employers?
I don’t doubt that either WHC or LST will issue her with the ticket, but, how on Earth is she to pay for it?
Is there a handy web-site answering these questions, because:
TfL’s web-site leads one HERE which is useless, as annual seasons are not even mentioned. And putting “annual Season” into TfL’s search-space doesn’t help much, either.
Also the otherwise useful site called “Oyster & National Rail” , most unusually, doesn’t seem to cover this, either.
@Greg
LST is managed by Network Rail and serves AGA as well as TfL and LO, so I would imagine it would be a good bet for still acccepting company cheques.
Indeed, it should be possible to buy a ticket from any where to anywhere else at any National Rail station, so if LST can’t do it, she could always try Kings Cross or Fenchurch Street
Southern stations accept company cheques so I suspect other GTR ones do too.
timbeau, purley dweller, ngh
I re-checked with the NR enquires site just now, & on burrowing down I found THIS page which says that NR offices (like LST) will accept company cheques, but it depends on the Operating Company or Concession.
As you can see, it says:
“London Overground – No cheques accepted.”
Now then, how are the many tens/hundreds of thousands of annual season-ticket holders going to pay for their seasons? Out of their own pockets & claim it back?
Unlikely – that’s the point of the interest-free employer’s loan after all.
This has all the makings of a slow-burn PR disaster.
In the meantime, all suggestions gratefully recieved!
Oh & a written enquiry, dated 11/02/16 to TfL says:
QUOTE] Please note that we are currently working on correspondence received prior to 7 January 2016.
ENDQUOTE]
i.e. 5 weeks in arrears & “222-1234” is down as well.
Customer service – what’s that?
@ Greg – seems C2C will oblige so the “Boss” should be able to use a company cheque there. I’d imagine they’d be happy to flog a LST-WHC season. Otherwise check who actually staffs LST’s ticket office. If it is AGA then you’re fine. I suspect it probably is AGA but the NR website doesn’t confirm this.
Alternatively can your wife’s employer provide some means of electronic transfer if the requisite details are provided by LOROL for a ticket sale at Walthamstow Central? I doubt your wife’s case is the first example the firm’s had to deal with. The problem should be looked at from both ends to see if a viable solution exists.
Many companies (including the one I work for) simply pay the amount that a season tickets costs into the employees bank account, and the employee then pays for the season ticket with a credit/debit card.
@1956
Indeed, but some companies don’t trust their employees to use their season ticket loan for the purpose for which it is intended so insist on making the cheque out to the transport operator.
timbeau & 1956
There’s also the problem, IIRC that the payment of Season Ticket Loans is a concession by HMRC & they may require “paperwork” to be shown.
If you are a financial concern ( e.g. a large accountancy/tax practice ) then you have to be squeaky-clean & therefore a direct payment is very unlikely.
I’m beginning to feel sorry for people commuting in from Zone 6 who will have to try to go through the hoops of the new procedures – I mean finding approx £950 straight-off, free & clear, without going into debt the next month is bad enough, but an annual Z1-6 is …… £2364
Ukkk ….
Greg,
Are we not making a giant mountain out of a tiny molehill?
Surely if a company wants to ensure accountability for a season ticket loan then the obvious thing to do is to pay the money direct to TfL themselves and, if necessary, physically give the Oystercard to the employee? That way the audit trail is even better than a company cheque.
The “problem”, I suspect is in small companies where that is the way it has always been done and the person who has to sort this out does not want to change when there is an established tried and tested means of providing this payment. Nevertheless that, rightly or wrongly, is a feature of modern life and, from my experience, cheques are rarely used these days by businesses and not exactly greatly used by most members of the public.
If there is cause for complaint it is probably that TfL have not really spelt out what other mechanisms are available in situations like this. Ideally, if this really is a major issue, there should be a mechanism for someone to top-up someone else’s Oyster card (including with an annual season payment) without the privacy of data being breached.
PoP
That MIGHT work for a zonal Oyster.
Point-to-point seasons, as used by many tens of thousands into LST, maybe not so much
I suspect this is an issue that has been overlooked in TfL’s change programme. TfL clearly recognises that lots of people get annual seasons/travel cards etc. But didn’t look at the source of the funds to obtain same. Apart from paying small sums to small traders, I wouldn’t dream of paying a large sum by cheque these days, and it is amazing that companies are still doing this for season ticket loans. TfL itself offers same to its employees and doesn’t do this (paid though payroll). They are squeaky clean with the tax officials. So if they can do it, why not everyone else?
(Apologies for posting this is a less relevant thread earlier) [Now removed. Malcolm]
100+30
Because there is no effective replacement for a “Bill of Exchange” in many situations, & cheques are a specialised form of a BoE.
Many small organisations, rather than companies use “company” double-signatory cheques [ Two I know of are a Morris Side & an Allotment Association, f’rinstance ] How are you going to set these up with a “credit card”, then?
Also TfL are “Not Interested” ( or certainly appear so ) in point-to-point tickets, especially for seasons. They will want to push people on to the more expensive & therefore more remunerative zonal fare structure.
Can we wrap this up please. We’ve noted that there is difficulty for firms and their employees who wish to use company cheques to pay for annual seasons. The reasons why they might or might not wish to do this, and the apparent decline in the use of cheques for all purposes are not really transport-related. TfL’s ceasing to accept these (and the fact that, for now at least, some other TOCs still do) are noted. I don’t see much point in any further discussion of this (unless someone has something really novel to say about it).
Malcom
I tend to agree that … unless someone has something really novel to say about it is correct, but:
The original question, regarding the plight of many thousands of people, now unable to readily obtain season tickets, has (still) not been answered.
An answer to that question would be something new.
Almost anything else would fall under your proposed cut-off, I think.
My current and previous employer both previously paid season ticket loans only by cheque to the transport operator. Both have now changed their procedure to payment to the employee, with a requirement for the season ticket to be presented within 2 weeks of start date.
So it seems, with 1956’s comment as well, that companies are well able to change their procedures whilst remaining compliant with HMRC rules and their own audit/accountability requirements.
MikeP,
Presumably they actually demand proof that you have bought the thing. If it is on an Oystercard then I can’t see that showing them your Oystercard proves anything.
Hand over the receipt – or copy thereof of the Oyster transaction? The machines do have that option – although you have to select it If you buy on-line, then I am sure there is an option for a receipt or a screen grab you can make (have never bought Oyster on-line)
100andthirty – I had to buy a new annual season last week (my employer trusts us enough to just give us the cash advance in our pay packets) and discovered that ticket machines do not sell annual Travelcards. The only option is to use one of the “visitor centres” or pay on the website.
Philip Apologies, I have discovered this too.
I note with interest, given it is a management contract based franchise, that TSGN (ahem, the DfT) are now adopting LU’s approach to ticket selling. In other words close loads of ticket offices, downgrade others and shove the staff out into the cold to stand around looking gormless or having a chat with colleagues.
http://www.thameslinkrailway.com/about-us/news/modernising-our-stations/
Very large numbers of stations involved and probably a precursor to the same happening right across the suburban franchises. I am really surprised about some of the larger Home Counties stations on the lists – Stevenage! They’re not “tiddler” stations by any description. The bit I don’t understand is why the ticket office can’t be the “station hosting point”. A great many NR ticket offices are located on or adjacent to platforms anyway given the stations are fairly simple in their design. Knocking through a window to oversee the platforms and provide a comms point seems an ideal way to double up the function of the ticket office. The TSGN proposal seems a lot of effort to achieve very little.
Many stations already have a window to the platform from the days of excess fare points.
@WW: The more positive way in which they are emulating TfL is that most stations will be staffed from first to last train, which is a big change for the likes of the MML inner suburban stations.
@ Ian J – fair comment but, as ever with these things, it depends on how the number of staff deployed and whether they work in the way they are expected to work. Also will there be “management walking about” across the full service day to make sure the service quality is right. I am not sure I’d want to be standing around for hours on a freezing cold, wet platform at somewhere like Hendon or Alexandra Palace.
The other aspect that concerns me for NR stations is whether national ticketing obligations are being whittled away because those “high up” have been blinded by the apparent possibilities of smart ticketing. We have already seen SEFT basically collapse as an initiative and then an alternative vision being spun as some great new panacea for rail passengers. However as Roger Ford has nicely pointed out in Modern Railways there are multiple failure points with the new technological vision when compared to a boring old printed piece of cardboard. The presumption everyone will have a super duper Smartphone, be fully techno comfortable and never have a phone run out of power is just so daft that you have to wonder what is going on. How will a “host point” deal with advance ticket purchases and reservations or sell someone a rover ticket or issue a railcard? Passenger vending machines can’t do all those things and transaction times could be protracted for advance tickets.
There is no doubt that PAYG and Travelcards on a smartcard / payment card for use on a large complex network like London undoubtedly works, is attractive to a lot of passengers and can bring operational benefits. However forever stretching the concept to breaking point will bring it into disrepute at some point. I’d say we are beginning to see that with Oyster reaching Gatwick because of the underlying ticketing complexity that Oyster can’t deal with properly (hence paper tickets being cheaper at some times). I simply can’t see how you replicate the full range of NR ticketing products and availabilities on a smart medium without massive, massive investment in the back room systems and the validation equipment. Even a simple thing like break of journey is immensely hard to replicate with a smartcard and TfL doesn’t even try (ignoring the odd possibility at some OSIs for people to dash into a shop if they want to). The problem I have is that we seem to be starting with a technology “vision” and no doubt a desire for big cost savings whereas you should really be starting with what passengers want / like about the product range and work on from there. Technology is an enabler not the objective.
Closing NR ticket offices. Not to mention that many ticket machines are programmed not to offer railcard fares – GoViaThameslink I’m looking at you. How is that to be accommodated if ticket offices are closed?
The inability to buy annual Travelcards from ticket machines makes me suspect that TfL is deliberately trying to make them difficult to buy so that they can be described as unpopular and dropped. Maybe they’ll make claims about the potential problems caused if someone tries to feed over a grand’s worth of cash into a machine, but how many people would actually want to do that?
@Philip
Annual tickets are popular with operators because they get all the cash up front, so I don’t think that TfL are looking for an excuse to get rid of them. But while there are many arguments about why a smartphone alone is not a suitable replacement for paper tickets, an internet and major station combination should be sufficient for purchasing longer term season tickets provided that there is a suitable mechanism for passing over whatever form of ‘ticket’ is then needed. Much of the problem is that the checking regime on both TfL and NR services is generally very limited. Heathrow Express probably could get rid of conventional tickets because they allow for a download to either a smartphone or a printer, giving multiple options. But, there again, they don’t have to deal with the wretched gates.
quinlet,
Annual tickets are popular with operators because they get all the cash up front, so I don’t think that TfL are looking for an excuse to get rid of them.
There are at least elements in TfL that would strongly disagree with you.
The argument is that the discount they have to offer for season tickets makes no sense and is out of all proportion to the benefit they get. It was once true that they liked season tickets because of both cash up front and, more particularly, it took pressure off-booking offices. Basically, you got a discount for not pestering them each day for a return ticket.
The feeling is that TfL can borrow money so cheaply they would be better off increasing the multiplier (number of weekly rate payments made to qualify for an annual – 40, I believe) so as to ensure that each day’s travel is charged for. With part time working, working at home and other factors, TfL would rather the cost relates to the usage made.
The argument for TOCs is totally invalid because if you buy an annual season ticket then the TOC only initially can only access the first month’s payment. The rest is stored safely in an account, to be released in monthly increments, so that if the TOC went bust season ticket holders would be protected.
PoP
The argument is that the discount they have to offer for season tickets makes no sense and is out of all proportion to the benefit they get.
A popular myth that has no foundation in reality, actually.
An annual season = 10.5 months travel @ weekly rates, approx, right?
And everyone gets 4 weeks holiday + statutories.
Quite a lot of people get more holiday than that.
Now add the days up, on which said season-ticket holder may be likely to travel.
Oh, um, err.
It is much more convenient for the traveller/ticket-holder, because they only have to get a ticket once a year.
In London, there is the added benefit of “free” travel into town at weekends, but that’s a marginal cost.
Think a bit of a rounding error creeps in if you work on months though.
Taking PoP’s 40 week breakeven point and 30 days A/L plus 8 bank holidays (=7.6 weeks) leaves the passenger better off to the effect of 4.5 weeks of travel.
For people who regularly don’t travel in to work on a covered service the operator may ‘win’ – but these people may not buy an annual in the first place!
Greg,
An annual season = 10.5 months travel @ weekly rates, approx, right?
WRONG
52 weeks in a year. 39 weeks is 9 months. So little over 9 months. Add 6 weeks holidays and statutories. So 46 weeks and therefore 6 weeks of “free” travel as an enticement to pay in advance.
In London, there is the added benefit of “free” travel into town at weekends, but that’s a marginal cost.
The days of this being marginal cost, if they ever existed, are long gone. Saturday on some lines is a very busy day that brings its own problems. Best example is the Piccadilly line which (just) runs more frequently during most of the day on Saturday than it does in the Monday-Friday peak.
The Victoria line runs at approximately 27tph on Sunday. That is not exactly a trivial marginal cost and if demand was less they could reduce frequency without it making a significant difference to journey times.
In general you have to pay staff more on Saturday and Sunday too.
The ratios are 7 days * 3.84 gives the monthly price, 7 days * 40 gives the Annual price.
I rather expect the multiplier issue to come up again as a way of screwing yet more money out of people’s pockets. You don’t cut £700m worth of grant and then find the recipient of that grant doesn’t do anything to recoup their losses. Obviously TfL can’t act unilaterally as tickets are jointly available and retailed. Whether the SoS would be brave / reckless enough to agree to worsen the deal for annual ticket purchasers remains to be seen. Whether other clever tunes can be played with aspects of fares and charging also remains to be seen. On the basis that PoP’s remarks about TfL thinking relate to what he has been told by people “in the right place” then we should be very worried about future plans for fares (notwithstanding Mayoral policies of whatever hue).
After a fair number of complaints about poor performance of online and telephone ordering services for people renewing season tickets I understand TfL are working to remove the ban on annual sales via ticket machines. I wouldn’t be shocked if they are put on to machines but a member of staff has to witness / verify a credit or debit card transaction. It’s almost certainly the banks who are causing the problems because the logic of encoding an annual onto an Oystercard at a ticket machine is no different to doing it at a ticket window. It’s the high value of an unwitnessed / verified transaction that will be the killer. The one bit of process that can’t be done, and this may also be something TfL don’t want to handle at a station, is the Gold Card issue (i.e. printing it). Clearly a staff member can sign on to set the GC discount code on a smartcard. As I have said for yonks it was ludicrous for TfL not to make clear to passengers what the revised process was for season tickets. They clearly decided to “hope for the best” and tough out any criticism when it came. I’m just grateful I no longer have to buy an annual ticket as I’d be facing the nightmare of renewal around about now. Previously it was a pleasant 2 minute transaction at a ticket window with everything done with a smile.
@WW: On the basis that PoP’s remarks about TfL thinking relate to what he has been told by people “in the right place” then we should be very worried about future plans for fares
I don’t think that it is any secret that TfL would like to increase the fares multiplier for season tickets – I’m pretty sure it was in the TfL fares advice document to the Mayor, which was released by the Assembly but now no longer seems to be on their website. Clearly the Mayor chose not to take their advice.
I do think that there are social equity issues around the multiplier – at the moment people with full time jobs who can afford a year’s payment up front are subsidised by people who work part time or irregularly or don’t have the wherewithal to pay for an annual (yes, I know some employers offer season ticket loans, but these tend to be in the better paying industries anyway).
The question of what the multiplier should be is different to the question of what the overall fare take should be: it would be entirely possible to do it in a revenue neutral way.
Previously it was a pleasant 2 minute transaction at a ticket window with everything done with a smile.
A 2 minute transaction after you reach the head of the queue, of course.
@Ian J
“Previously it was a pleasant 2 minute transaction at a ticket window with everything done with a smile.
A 2 minute transaction after you reach the head of the queue, of course.”
But as you can renew any time up to a week ahead, you can choose a quiet time – you have at least four chances a day (start and finish of both outward and return journeys, and possibly other times as well, e.g lunchtime if you work near a station)
@timbeau: true (unless you are a bus passenger), but if you renew online/by phone you can do it while you are actually on the train/on the platform/wherever.
In principle could the ticket machines handle the kind of additional password verification often used for online purchases (Verified by Visa/MasterCard SecureCode)?
@Ian J
Even bus passengers can visit station booking halls. Indeed, I would be surprised if there are more than a handful of bus routes in London which do not call at a station.
Ian J
You are touching on the point which led me to start this sub-thread.
Quite a few employers have gone the “sensible” route as mentioned by others, over this change, but there are still quite a few who still “offer season ticket loans” – but you have to get the ticket up-front first & then claim the money back, unfortunately.
Couple this with what WW says about TfL “hoping for the best” etc & things don’t look too good, for some people, unfortunately.
@ Ian J – what queue? I was able to get there at a quieter time and can’t recall having much / any wait each time I bought an annual. The advantage was that I knew the ticket was on the card so I had seamless availability, I had a Gold Card in my hand and the discount was set on the card. If I had ordered on line I would have had to make a special tube or rail journey within a defined time period using an agreed location to collect the ticket. I couldn’t collect it on a bus reader. I would then have had to wait a week for the Gold Card to turn up in the post (based on what TfL told me) and then go back to a station to present the Gold Card to get the PAYG discount set. That almost certainly would involve tracking down a member of staff, waiting for a TVM to become free and then however long that process takes – assuming the staff member had had the training of course. Not all of them have. I wasn’t commuting at the time and accept if you were then collecting the ticket via a gate would be seamless just before you ask the question!
Now you tell me what the heck the advantage is of ordering an annual on line when you have at least two subsequent transactions to make, one of which will possibly take longer than doing the whole thing at a ticket office window. Let’s be honest here – all TfL have done is create a process which transfers a great deal of the burden to the passenger in terms of time and queuing and waiting. All of this so they can sack staff, stop paying their pension contributions and seal up ticket offices. And this for the passengers who fork out huge sums upfront to the benefit of TfL’s cashflow. I know who’s winning out of this change and it isn’t the paying public.
In ancient times (the 1980’s), if I was required to buy a rail ticket either for a business journey or for a “loan” season ticket, my then employer would give me a BR rail warrant. This was exchanged for a ticket at any booking office.
You could also obtain tickets at a travel agent.
Do any similar schemes now exist with TfL or TOCs?
Alternatively, can an employer use the TfL/Oyster website to buy a ticket on behalf of an employee?
I saw what looked like a rail warrant the other day – it seemed to give the conductor a bother on the train!
This was on Greater Anglia however.
WW some way back up – “Technology is an enabler not the objective.” Or, when we moved from “E-Government” to “T-Government” (“Transformative Government” – really) in the mid-2000’s, the goal was for it to be the major driver for organisational change.
Utterly Dagenham.
@MikeP/WW – for a real treat in technobabble, may I recommend the “Smart Cities” supplement that arrived with this morning’s Grauniad. Turn to page 3 and read the advertisement from ENTIQ. It’s a delight – to give you just two typical quotes: “ENTIQ feels that this is too siloed an approach for impactful and timely innovation…” and “Our programme will… showcase new ways of engaging with your community, city councilor [sic], and inner athlete”. Dear God, we are all doomed. Just off now to showcase my inner alcoholism and drink all the 2006 Burgundy before the lights go out.
Grham H
There’s a n other word for what you call “technobabble”.
And in the case you mention it really is an absolute gold-plated example of what is usually referred to as, er .. Male Bovine Excrement, I think
@Greg T 🙂
@ Graham H 1118 – my brain is addled enough without reading more nonsense. I’ve always been deeply sceptical about “emperor’s new clothes” initiatives. If something is good it should be able to “speak” for itself even under the harshest assessment.
Love your final sentence – Just off now to showcase my inner alcoholism 🙂 🙂
So… why has the Mayor chosen to re-open this issue, given that (a) the programme has been completed, seemingly without any major problems; (b) the threat of industrial action over this issue seems to have passed; and (c) it wasn’t an election pledge….?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37297350
@JayKay: possibly to distract from his non-intervention in [Snip].
[This is conjecture and off topic. Sorry. LBM]
Not sure if this is the correct place to post this …
Station clousures in spite of / because of ( ? ) relocation of Ticket-office staff ( maybe? )